Pulp Culture + Levi Cleeman

Joining us is Australian freelance artist and illustrator Levi Cleeman, a rising creative known for his bold style and strong visual storytelling with his Kickstarter, Death Roll, an anthropomorphic actioner, has just launched. 

Welcome back to Pulp Culture Plus, your bonus hit of one-on-one deep dives with creative talent from Australia and around the world, a show where we unpack the process, the passion and everything in between about being creative.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to Pop Culture Pass, your partnership of one-on-one big guys with creative talent from Australia and around the world, the show where we unpack the process and the passion and everything in between about being creative. Joining us today is Australian freelance artists from Australia, Levi Clayman, a rising creative known for his gold style and strong visual storytelling with his Kickstarter. Now we have Death Roll, an anthropomorphic action here, which is just launched, and we're really excited to have him on the show. Hey mate.

SPEAKER_01 0:57

How you doing? Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

I know, almost wasn't the stars weren't awind uh for us for us when it comes to uh technology.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

Um It never is, mate. It's it's always the way. There's always something I hate I hate I hate technology as much as I use it. Yeah, um I'll I'm sure I'll touch on it later, but I just uh I it's so frustrating, so it's alright. I'm used to it.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

You're just not friends.

SPEAKER_01 1:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Pretty much, pretty much, mate. It's it honestly I have uh like so much anxiety and stress about like uh either learning new you know software or or or figuring it out, or or if I might lose a ton of uh art or something like that, you know, like it's it's I don't like it, but you know, I I use it, I need it.

SPEAKER_00 1:45

It's all good. Well we'll we we've got there in the end. So uh uh anyway, thanks for being on the show. Um uh yeah, just so that you're aware, uh Lauren nominated you uh from from last week's uh episode. She she had nothing but uh but terrible things to say about you. So um that's that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

After the time we've spent together, I uh I can I can believe it. No, I uh I was listening to you guys, uh I listened to that podcast. Uh it always if ever I hear my name unexpectedly, it's always a shock, and I feel like I'm in trouble. But um that was nice surprise.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

Uh that's fantastic. Well maybe uh maybe I've I've sort of given you a little bit of a a spill at the beginning. Uh tell us a little bit about you and um and and how you sort of uh started this uh this road to creativity.

SPEAKER_01 2:38

So I am yeah, I'm an artist in in Perth, uh born in uh Darwin, but uh, you know, for for was in the country as a kid, now here, but I've been drawing all my life. Um I think I was just very fortunate with my parents being that they uh were supportive, like uh because uh my sister's very uh talented as well. She's a she's a singer, she's a talented singer, and so when we grew up in the country, it there wasn't much of an opportunity. Um like we we did what we could, but um fortunately we moved into the city where um we could kind of like expand on that creativity and and learn from other people and everything, you know, whether it be schools or out of out-of-school um training, you know, um or or or learning. Um but I have been drawing since I was about three. I think um I uh the first the first prize I won um was the Royal Show Um uh Judges Award, you know, when I was five. Um and that was just like to that that's what I mean. Like it was it's just not that it was any good, but you know, for a I don't know, they they seem to like that there was a lot there for a five-year-old. Um that that's so it's just it's just been happening forever, you know. I can't, it's the only thing I really, really love to do and stick with.

SPEAKER_00 4:00

Yeah, fantastic. So so are you uh nowadays, are you more of a digital artist or still a traditional artist with with the aid of of digital?

SPEAKER_01 4:11

Um both. Like everything always starts with um traditional. Um it feels a lot more natural, a lot more um easy. You know, I can't just draw uh straight onto a screen. Like I use a tablet, a Wacom tablet, but that's after I do the initial sketch with a pencil. So I always have pencil and paper. And then I also it it's a it's a really honestly stupid and uh long process that I do that I haven't seen any other professionals really do too much of, probably for good reason, but I really like it because like I said, it kind of gives m, you know, me a bit of a break from using technology so much and gives my eyes a break from looking at a screen because I'll draw the uh the once I've done the sketch and I'll put it onto the computer and I'll outline everything. I do like crisp outlines uh in Photoshop using a tablet like you're just drawing like you would with a normal fine liner pen. And then I print that out and then do the colours with um coloured pencils because I just have a lot more control over coloured pencils or um I I prefer pencils, but I'll like I did train or and I was fortunate enough to be taught, you know, how to how to paint, whether it be um oil painting or um watercolor painting, but pencils is just so easy and they I can take them anywhere um and there's no cleanup, you know? Um and uh they're just very versatile, and then I'll colour over the pencils again after I scan it uh digitally, and just um it's it's it's just a very long process, but the end result looks quite nice.

SPEAKER_00 5:51

Yeah. What uh so so what part of the uh the page or the piece that you're working on that you that it clicks for you? When is that when is it that moment? Is it is it is it the actual sketch? Is it is it then when you finish the pencils, is it when you're ready to put it into digital and do those those finishing touches on? What part does it click for you and you go, yep, I'm happy with that and I'm moving on?

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Um it I think probably after I've done the pencils, like I really enjoy, like it's different phases. Like I really uh if I know exactly what I'm going to draw and I'm looking forward to it, like like say for it's a scene in a comic book, and um I'm I'm really looking forward to this scene. It's got the right characters, it's got this action, um, it it's it's maybe it's in a really emotional point in the story, and I get really amped up for it. So, and but I haven't started it yet. But that can be really enjoyable, and I'll I'll strictly just listen to music when I do that, so I can think about what I'm doing more. And then it's also a a gear shift when I go on to like digital and start outlining, or same thing when I'm colouring, because I can kind of switch off a little bit more and listen to an audiobook. I love that's the only way I have time for you know consuming other stories these days, is audiobooks. And I can kind of switch off a little bit and just you know, um get it get a story and get a book in or something while I go into the uh the outline and I can see it come together more and then the pencils and then the digitals, you know. Yeah, the the thinking side of it is is is a little bit more done by then, you know? Yeah. But it's cool because you get to see it come together a lot more in the later f phases. And there's definitely points during the entire thing where you're like, oh my god, this is like 20 hours into a page. Is this gonna pay off? Is this gonna suck? Is this a a waste of time that I don't have? And is this a bad idea that's not gonna come to you know fruition? So it is really nice when by the end of it and the colours are done. I'm like, alright, cool, this is this is going in the book, I don't have to redo this or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 8:03

What uh so you you you talked about uh you you love or your love-hate relationship with technology. Tell us a little bit about um what that learning curve looked like for you uh being an artist traditionally and then moving into that digital space.

SPEAKER_01 8:20

Um I just I guess I I just I just for whatever reason I've always found um the technical side, you know, learning all the little it's it's I get very intimidated by the the software and the buttons, and then you know, when you watch a tutorial, they're always using a different um updated or older, you know, software that doesn't match up to what you're doing, and then I get terrified that I'm gonna lose all my stuff or or or forget how to do save something properly or or or ruin, you know, God knows how many hours of work. Um and I think I I did graphic design in TAFE and I did find out that I'm a pretty terrible um graphic designer. Like I could I could illustrate, and if ever there was a like one of the classes or uh you know revolved around that, I would excel. But then anything to do, like I was just absolute crap at everything else, and I realized I couldn't be, you know, and it was a good, it was a great learning curve, like you would learn a bit more about typography and and just placement and colour and all this, like I would I would pick it, pick it up and learn a bit more, but like compared to the other people that could just boom, boom, boom, understand and learn the software and learn the like it, I just um I don't know, it's just like it's kind of like math and science, you know. Like I just struggled with it. Yeah, um, intimidated me.

SPEAKER_00 9:44

No, that that that makes perfect sense. You were talking about listening to audiobooks, and uh I noticed that you've got a um quite a bit of work that's been heavily uh influenced uh from the uh Dungeon Crawler Carl series. Um is that something that's really sort of sparked the imagination when you've been listening to those books?

SPEAKER_01 10:04

Or definitely, definitely. Um they've been a huge one for me recently. Like I'm I'm I'm not too big on re-listening to books just because there's so many stories out there. So I haven't listened to one since the last one came out. Um and I normally consume a lot of like um like uh thrillers or horrors or crime uh mysteries and stuff like that, but uh so quite a different genre. But the Dungeon Crawler Car ones are just that they were so but like draw drawing and still are like they're so fun to do because the characters are so so unique and so bombastic, and they're they're they're character forward, like meaning like I think he the writer Matt Dinnerman really focuses on every individual's character's story so much. So you I get so invested in getting them right, and they're they're all so unique, they're like the X-Men, but you know, like but also nothing like them. But and then what's also why I've stuck with that for so long, besides getting officially licensed to work done with them now, which is really exciting. The reason why I I started getting into it so much, and I would advise maybe other artists if they're in a similar uh uh you know place as I am, like I've drawn and seen other artists, I've I've seen Batman and Superman and Wolverine and all the other ones so many times, and there's so many artists that I feel like I can never live up to, you know, and I've also done those characters so much, but it they look so similar to how the other artists are doing them. And I just like I was so I wanted to do my own characters, but also like it was still fun drawing these characters that hundreds of thousands of people uh uh you know reading about and everything, but there's not much art out there for them. So to be able to be in that first wave and put out a visual representation that not many people have is actually really f fulfilling and exciting because they've got it in their heads, but that unlike Batman or anyone else, there's no visual besides like a cover, there's no visual for them, you know what I mean? Yeah, or for myself. So it's really exciting putting that out there and being like, this is how I envision it, and you can only go off the words on the page rather than someone else's art. You know? Yeah, that's true. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah, absolutely. That's fantastic. I suppose you're pretty excited about the news that there's gonna be a uh a TV series coming?

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Yeah, mate, yeah, so excited, so excited. I am skeptical though, because I heard it was going to be live action, and I'm sure they know what they're doing, but I just think it's like, unless I'm wrong, but I did hear live action, and it's just such an insane world and story. Like the budget's gonna be out of this world. I would have thought like a dark animation would have been more doing it.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

It's interesting because I mean Seth McFarlane's uh attached to that to produce this, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:05

But he's kind of excelled in both, but then yeah, I would have thought um definitely not in the same style as Family Guy, I wouldn't have thought that would be a good idea, uh for sure. Are you familiar with the books at all?

SPEAKER_00 13:16

Uh I am familiar with the books, yeah. So it's gonna be it's a it's a wild ride, right? So Yeah. Uh so I look, uh if if if they if they plan on doing it as a live action, they've obviously got some pretty good ideas on how they're going to uh to roll it out. So um but uh yeah look I mean that's that's amazing that uh that you're you're now doing um you know official art for for the um for the property so um and that that obviously goes in spades by um by by your your talents and your skills um what's something that you believed about your art early um on that you've like completely changed your mind about now?

SPEAKER_01 13:54

Oh god um and I've changed my mind on it.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

So have you changed your style in a way? You know, like when you're gonna be able to do it. Oh hugely, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:03

Like or like like it's definitely um although it's it's it's funny because it's almost gone back to like how like so like as a kid I would constantly draw monsters and like I'm big into drawing animals and monsters and beasts and stuff like that. And then it switched to um uh like demons. I did a lot of like uh like more leaning into like the horror and uh demonic creatures and stuff like that. Um and then it went into more like superheroes, and now it's like it's a bit of a a mix of everything, but it's definitely all the original art that I'm doing now for my own books and my own stories, is all like the anthropomorphic animals, like akin to like say Black Zad Um or Um, there's that comic solo, or I mean there's a bunch of different anthropomorphic stories out there. I guess growing up in the 90s, we had a lot of that, you know, when we were consuming like the street sharks and ninja turtles and all that kind of stuff. This looks a lot different to that, but I could definitely see where those um influences came from. And I just love because I love nature documentaries, I love animals and everything like that, and taking the characters from different animals and and and and making them into actual characters in the book, like they lend themselves to become such wonderful uh creations and and and their personality shine and stuff. And when I'm actually telling a story and letting that help with that, influence with that is a is a lot of fun, you know?

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Um so I guess like in terms of style, it's more I don't know, the style styles, you know, just you progressively get a bit better, but um I think the the the subject itself is more changed and and and ebbed and flowed.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Yeah, that makes that makes perfect sense. I mean, you've obviously um uh you've done quite a number of cons now, um, and you've you've you've met uh other artists. You obviously uh you've worked with with Lauren. Um what's uh what's that sort of uh piece of advice that you've you've heard either from someone you know directly to you or that you've on YouTube or or read or something or other that uh that that has stuck with you and sort of uh is part of your your work process now?

SPEAKER_01 16:20

I can't remember who said this, but I and I I'm sure it's been a number of people that have said something similar to this, and I've uh kind of ran with it and have had to uh slow myself down and take it like and and and I guess you know take it upon myself as well is just enjoy the process. Um like I say, I can't say who who said that um to or have I heard that at all, but that's kind of what I've been telling myself and then other people like because I teach a kid's art class on the weekend, and you know, they they they're young kids, you know, um that we we draw whatever. Um, but like, or other other artists that are earlier on in their career and they get frustrated because they're not leveling up, you know, as fast as they'd like. And just like anyone, they see what they love out there and what they want to emulate, and I have the exact same issue. Um, and you're comparing yourself constantly to to artists that are truthfully better than you and more skilled and and in every way what you want to be, but like at the same time you have to embrace the uh the the grind of it, this the process, otherwise there's no point. That's why we admire the artists that we see and and love their work, because they are so talented and they take their time to get better and they constantly improve, you know. And if there was a magic button that could do that, and anyone could do it, then nobody would give a shit, you know. Um and so and that's why that would like nobody likes the AI slob is because there is no soul, there is no talent or or thought or anything put behind it. So I just think that the biggest thing is that this takes a lifetime, and you have to embrace that and enjoy it, and enjoy the fact that it's gonna take, you know, every piece probably is gonna take hours upon hours and days, and and just stick with it, you know what I mean? Don't rush it, don't look at it as the end, as the goal, like the end result. Just enjoy it as you're doing it. You it's a privilege to have the time and space and means to create something that you love. Yeah, so enjoy it while you get to do it, you know. Don't just think about how it's gonna look at the end of it, you know. Um so that's a really long-winded way of saying, I don't know, enjoy what you're doing.

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Yeah, no, it's it's it's great. So with uh obviously, um, you know, you're not always going to be enjoying what you're doing, and you sort of you know get to a point where it's either not working out or you're feeling challenged, or you're feeling a little bit a bit stifled. What do you do to help, you know, sort of recharge, reinvigorate, get yourself back in the zone?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Um, get up. Like uh, like I the only like I because I'll I'll draw, you know, eight plus hours a day, you know, sometimes that's a light day. Um and you know, with a full-time job that fortunately does still allow me to um spend some of that time um doing art as well. But like uh for me the biggest thing is like resetting with the gym. Like I'll I'll I'll go to the gym every day and work out as hard as possible for at least an hour. Um and if I don't get that in, which is extremely rare, I'll go insane. Um so it's the complete off like I I you have to step away and like I will physically exert myself and and and try not to think about it for as much as I can um and then come back refresh, you know, or or if I can't like or go for a walk, you know. Like I um because sometimes you know you'll be sitting down for an it's been hours and I'll want to get up and scream because it's just been you've been confined to that desk for so long, and you know it's it's almost a bit unnatural to a point, you know. Um for me I can do that for hours and hours and hours, but you know, there there comes a point.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

No, that that that makes perfect sense. If you could um collaborate with any creator, now this is like that old saying, like, you know, if you could have dinner with anybody, but we're talking about pure collaboration. Uh if you could collaborate with any creator, either alive or dead, who would be who would be that that person or people?

SPEAKER_01 20:45

Ooh, that's such a good question. I wish I had thought about it more, but can I give a couple?

SPEAKER_00 20:50

Yeah, absolutely you can. Uh uh Lauren Lauren uh list made a list, so um you can list as many or as or as little as you like.

SPEAKER_01 21:00

I mean, I I for a couple of like I mean, obviously uh Matt Dinnerman would be incredible just because he's creating such a vibrant world. I really love his storytelling and it lends itself to like visuals so well. Like it's such bombastic action, and the characters are so uh exciting to see and and they do everything insanely well. Like it would be a challenge, but it would be exciting to do like a one-shot or a small comic collaboration um there. Yeah, but then also um uh so I feel kind of bad about this one because I haven't had a chance to read his comics yet. Uh I haven't had the chance to read much lately, but the um the there's a there's a writer who's doing those image comics, um, I think they're called Feral. And um uh I think he's even doing Deathstroke, the uh absolute death stroke and stuff like that. Just the way that he I think he's got and he's got that serial killer story about this serial killer that's still. People's dogs after he's killed the family or something. And it just sounds so insane, so unique and so different. And I feel like the fact that I do a lot of animal art could really uh go hand in hand with what he's doing. Like very dark. Yes, yes, yes. Yes. And I just, yeah, again, like he's that dark storytelling with colourful characters and the animals and the like the it they that's kind of what I'm trying to do as well is have that juxtaposition between these like you know uh uh it's a colourful world, colourful animals and stuff, but then on the flip side, there's there's all this violence and gore and horror, and it's terrifying, you know, like and I think that's exciting. Um so to team up with him would be really cool. And then the other one would be um it's a bit left field, but like maybe one of the writers that I've been listening to. Yeah, um, so like someone like um who do does like maybe Christopher Ballman who wrote um Between Two Fires or Um Charlie Parker's series by um John Connolly. Um just I like again there's no there's no visuals behind any, there's no movies or anything like that, but when I'm listening to them, they sound so like uh like dark and like the folk horror that's you know told like in the stories and this gothic uh um uh dark fantasy or whatever, you know, the the their storytelling and stuff like that. Like, and because there's no comic or visuals or like even a book with pictures in it, you know, I think that would be really fun to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, that's that that's pretty rad. Um and and it sounds like a like a great uh great conversational party to to start things off with, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_02 23:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:54

With um with with relation to um, you know, you were talking about uh storytelling and uh obviously you're sort of visualizing some of these characters that that um might not necessarily have ever sort of been illustrated before. Um what what comes first for you in the in the creative process? Is it is it a story um or is it or is it the artwork first or is it a bit of both?

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Uh when I'm drawing the um the characters from like say a book like Dungeon Call of the Carl or another book that hasn't been.

SPEAKER_00 24:28

Whatever your process is, is it is it usually story first or is it the illustration?

SPEAKER_01 24:33

Uh it it really like if if sometimes a a scene will really capture me, other times like uh I'll just like the character themselves, you know, like uh I like I really like to get the emotion more than anything else behind a character, and it's always character forward. Um maybe there'll be a scene in the the book, um uh whether it's what I'm doing, like my own story or what I've been listening to that will capture my imagination. I'll be like I have to draw that, but um other times it's like uh maybe more often than not, it's the emotion behind the scene or the emotion that it brings out in myself, you know, and I'm like if that was really impactful, I would like to try and capture that, you know, whether or not I do, um, is another thing, but like that is what leads it first, and then but again, if it if it's specifically for um like death roll, the comic, um, then it will be, you know, uh uh once I've got this the basic script, then I start to like nail it down more and more and more with the the the actual like writing it down and then I'll commit to the actual art a bit more.

SPEAKER_00 25:48

Yeah, no. Well, I mean you mentioned Death Roll. This is your uh uh Kickstarter that uh has just launched. Um uh tell us a little bit about Death Roll.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Um, it is something I've been working on for years. It I actually finished it for the most part a couple years ago, but but it just means that like because I've almost finished because the volume one release on Kickstarter, um, well, it'll it'll release by the time this comes out, it's just launched. Volume two is almost finished as well. Uh, and each book is 180 pages. Um, so it's a big, thick graphic novel. Um, and it's fully colored, fully edited. Fortunately, I had a guy, uh wonderful, wonderful man called Ben Wolf. He's an author and um editor that reached out and uh I won't go into it just yet, but he I was really fortunate to have him edit it for me. Um and it is um uh set in an anthropomorphic world in Miami, Florida. Uh Death Roll is the story of Forrest, a young American bulldog and Army Ranger veteran, pushed beyond all limits in a desperate fight to rescue his brother from a gang of vicious reptiles. The dragons, led by a behemoth saltwater crocodile hunter, will tear his whole whole family apart before they allow their black market meat trade and nefarious hunting operation to be bought down. So it's just, it's ultimately like it's not quite revenge, it's almost like a rescue story. Um, and it's about uh the these brothers and this guy that he's a he's a he's a younger veteran. Like normally you get these kind of grizzled vet veterans that just want to be left alone and out of the fight, but he suffered a uh, like Forrest, the main character, like a catastrophic injury that took off um the lower half of his uh his right leg um at an early point, like he just reached uh the kind of the tip of the spear, he was an army ranger, and then but very early on got kind of taken out of the fight and then not um wouldn't wouldn't be able to well not allowed to to to come back in and um reenlist. And so there's a lot of uh there's a lot of rage, uh, there's a lot of resentment, there's a lot of uh loss in the character, and like he wants to be in the fight, and he's quite immature and bullheaded about that. Yeah. Um and that's the only thing he's good at. So so what was that? What was that?

SPEAKER_00 28:17

He's a bulldog, right?

SPEAKER_01 28:18

Exactly, exactly. Uh see what I did. That's that's the that's for the scholars to kind of put put together, you know, years from now.

SPEAKER_00 28:26

Yeah, got it, got it. I mean, it says here too that uh, you know, if you're fans of Black Sad or Jack Reacher or Berserk, um, then obviously you're gonna enjoy this book. Is are those uh like I mean you spoke about Black Sad before. Um I'm guessing that these these types of uh properties are very heavily influenced.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

Definitely, definitely. I think to be honest, I started working on it before I actually uh started reading uh Black Sad, and that was about, you know, I don't know how much I'd done by then, but then I found I was, oh my god, you know, like this is what I wanted to, like, this is what I'm striving to create, you know. But like I think it was more uh to be to be honest, without trying to deviate it too much, I'd already created just a list of characters, like like not just a list, sorry, but like I'd done the artwork, I'd created bios for like 65 characters, all these animals. I've got so much art that I haven't put out there yet, because I was just creating this book of um book of animals that were all like um warriors and criminals and serial killers and and yuckza and and and and mafia and spec ops guys and from all around the world using like different animals, and then the Forrest, the main character for the graphic novel, was kind of like almost like a joke character I did towards the end that was just kind of loosely based off the Punisher, like Garth Ennis' run, and me and my mate, and and I did it based on his dog, this bulldog, um, like this Scott. So he's specifically he's a dogo argentino and a uh an American bulldog uh cross, right? And so just so we don't have the um the English or French bulldog in our mind. Um and yeah, he he just and it was kind of and then it like this, and then I started to change and it I really kind of grew attached, and then his story kind of grew. I was like, I need to do a scene with this guy. So I did a whole scene, and I was like, I need to do a book, and then it kind of just expanded. So now, you know, his story is um, you know, like at least this first death roll, like in both books, volume one and volume two, about you know, well over 300 pages, most of it finished by now.

SPEAKER_00 30:37

That's awesome. So and and I mean like you you know, setting it in Miami, you've sort of got that Miami vice vibe to it as well, with you know, that sort of neon 80s sort of you know um influence, which I which I think is uh always a a great sort of um uh scene or setting. Uh I love the uh I love the idea of having criminals um that are you know sort of lizards and crocodiles and you know cool.

SPEAKER_01 31:06

I'm glad someone died, which I think so niche, but yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:09

Yeah, but but that that sort of just I I mean like like with Black Sad, it leans into um what you would expect that that animal to be or that creature to be um based on you know your feelings towards them anyway. Um and so yeah, I can really sort of without you know seeing the book, um, I can sort already see you know where you're where you're sort of going when it comes to that character development.

SPEAKER_01 31:36

Thank you, thank you. Um that's like that's part of it, like as I was, you know, like this is early on, but like I would have these kind of like wrestling with myself and my decisions on like have I committed to doing the wrong, like should I have made Forrest like a big cat or a bear or something much more, you know, terrifying like physically capable? He could have been like more of like a Jack Reacher or a John Wick character, but I was like, nah, it's he's not that, you know, he's a he's a dog, like he's not the biggest, he's not the scariest, he's not the fastest, he's not a lone wolf. But what dogs have like, and obviously other animals do, but when we think of specific breeds of dogs, it's their tenacity and it's their love and it's their loyalty that they have for one another, and it's their their ties to family and their bravery that sets them apart. Like they're never like really you know the most intimidating when you look at the animal kingdom, but there's so much you can pull from that with him specifically and the the breed, you know, and like you can you can have fun with the fact that well, what happens if they don't have a pack, you know, like mentally, how do they cope? Um, and then you know, with every book that comes out, like uh like after this, it's so fun to think about what animals would make of great villain, like you say, like I've got the saltwater crocodile for this one, but then like later on down the track, I want to go more into like a bit more horror or a bit more or like folk horror specifically, or like cartels and stuff, like and the there's so many animals that could you could pull from to that I've got some ideas for that could just be so fun visually as well. Like they it just kind of turns it on its head, and again, like the setting's one thing, like with all the bright colours, like in Miami, and and and I want to take him all around America, you know, like like the Louisiana Swamps.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

I I was just thinking that. I was exactly just thinking that you you sparked my imagination completely in the Louisiana Swamp. So yeah, I'm there.

SPEAKER_01 33:35

Oh yeah. That's it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. And then like I want to do like the app I don't know how to say it, but the the the mount the how do I say the uh the appalacian um yeah yeah, like uh like because to be honest, I've found that I prefer to draw nature than structures. I've come to like doing so many interior buildings and cityscapes and stuff. I'm like, oh my god, get me in the bloody forest. So like um I want to set it more in like rural areas, like small towns, and that's why I love The Stranger Come to Town, Stranger Comes to Town um idea behind comics. That's why Jack Reacher works so well, at least the earlier books. Um it just, you know, every book, different villain, different setting, and but except I want the character to get scarred up and learn as he goes on, you know, and like I'm thinking about like yeah, you know, Wolverines and and what whatever, whatever. Like it's just it's just it's a lot of fun. It feels so good to tell the stories, you know.

SPEAKER_00 34:31

Yeah, that's wild. With doing a Kickstarter, um, for those that are uh, you know, uh a bit like yourself with a with a planning on on launching a Kickstarter or sort of circling the waters of uh maybe I'll put my book out there, what's what's what's your biggest learning from putting together a tick Kickstarter?

SPEAKER_01 34:50

Um I would say that you just you have to have the work ready. Um like be ready to like that's why I was, you know, uh like I made sure that the book was done before before I even thought about launching a Kickstarter, like because of all the promoting and um, you know, like behind the scenes work of you know doing extra promotional art and post like I hate that side of things. Like I love engaging with people online and talking about the art and stories and things. And when people take an interest in my own personal stories, that is such a gift, like that feels so incredible. So I love spending the time talking about that with people that would uh message me privately that want to know more. But if the work wasn't already done, like the story and the editing and all the rest, I'd be so stressed out, you know, trying to be like, I'm gonna commit to having this book to everyone, like it's my biggest stress has been like, I guess, uh besides the technical side of things, is that I want people to feel like they've got an incredible story, they get attached to the characters and they get their money's worth at the end of the day, and they feel like it was a great purchase. And if I was freaking out about that and still trying to get the best work possible done on the comic and getting the writing done, edited, and going back like countless times, like I did, whilst also trying to promote it, it would be hell, and I wouldn't have done it, you know. So I would just say get the that stuff out of the way first and then get ready to promote. And I hate promoting, I hate putting myself like selling myself, but it's got to be done.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

That's one of the purposes of having you on the show was to uh talk about death roll. Um, for those of you who uh who want to check out uh death roll, it'll be in uh our show notes uh as well as our posts on uh on on our social pages under pop culture pod. But you can check out uh Levi's uh work on uh Instagram under Levi CleanArt. Uh also jump over to uh Kickstarter, which has now started the uh Death Roll campaign, uh and you can um yeah just type in your search bar Death Roll or Levi Kleeman and either of those will pop up. Um we're really uh grateful to have you on the show. Um but before we uh before we leave you, um uh as we ask all our guests, who would you nominate uh or who would you like to for us to uh uh uh uh interview on the show?

SPEAKER_01 37:26

I'll put down two names. Um uh either Jeremy, I don't know how to say his last name, it's Jeremy Sal Sal. I don't know him personally, but I have messaged him a couple times back and forth. But I'm listening to his audiobooks, um and he is an incredible uh author, uh like punk sci-fi um character forward like um action thriller type thing. Uh he's an Australian. Um and I can I can send that his link to you. Um and he like he's gotten me through hours of um, you know, while I while I'm drawing away, his work's incredible. Uh and then otherwise uh Rui. Uh and I'll send you his link as well. He's a great artist and a great friend that I'm fortunate enough to uh kind of link up with when I do the um when I do the conventions.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

Yeah, awesome. That's great. Well, thanks, thank, thanks so much for your time. We we we did make it through the uh the technical issues, but I'm so glad that we did it and that we've had you on the show. And um I'm I personally am looking forward to uh to to backing Death Roll. Uh at 180 pages, um, I'm already sold, and I hope you listeners are the same. But uh please thank uh Levi Cleman.

SPEAKER_01 38:42

Thank you so much for having me, mate. Like uh it was it was a really, really nice surprise. Um and it's it's always fun, you know, like because writing you you you're very it's very solo, so every now and then it's it's nice to talk to people about what you love doing, you know. Um so thank you. If you like what you're hearing, tell your friends. Follow us on socials and culture pod. And if you're feeling generous, drop us a five-star review on your favourite podcast.